Torchwood Children Of Earth saw the Deaths Of Ianto Jones, John Frobisher & Steven Carter (Jacks Grandson), many people are bothered by losing at least some of these, but lets analyse this.
Steven Carter (Jacks Grandson) was sacrificed to save millions of children from a probably extended life of, well fear and unhappiness. And as Jack didn't have access to any other children, did he do the wrong thing? If he let the 456 take 10% of the Earths children, they would only return in 20 years or so and do it all again, and again! It was a pretty much no win situation.
John Frobisher shot dead his 2 daughters, his wife and himself, as he knew they where to be taken, to live the life I have discussed above, can you blame him? I know Jacks solution stopped it all happening, but Frobisher couldn't see that coming. Would any father who knew what was to happen and loved his family do the same? Could you livew with the knowledge each day that had happened to your children?
Many are upset about the death of Ianto Jones, but lets face it, Torchwood do a very dangerous job, people will die, if you want to watch a TV show with no death, theres a lot of them on cbeebies! Torchwood losing members is IMHO realistic at least, if you all play with fire, someone will get burned!
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I know the story is Torchwood and it would be cheap to have the Doctor come in and save the day at the end, but these deaths, or at least some of them, could have been avoided, or less tragic at least. Martha is on her honeymoon, does that mean that with what's going on she wouldn't call the Doctor? Would Jack just not think of it? The only mention he had was from Gwen saying that he must turn away in shame, but there should have at least been an actual reason why the Doctor wasn't there or why they didn't try to contact him. They didn't need to have him, just someone saying they tried and couldn't get through to him or something like that.
And to all those who say the Doctor would have sacrificed Steven, he wouldn't have. The Doctor would have told Steven what was going on and what it would cost him, but also how it would save everyone else, and then Steven would have agreed to it himself. And sorry for the ranting post.
yeah jack didnt do it the right way, but what if steven refused? he still had only one option though!
I don't think Steven would have agreed (he would be too scared as a child) but I do think the Doctor wouldn't have sacrificed him.
What happened to 'an injury to one is an injury to all'? Why let Jack talk big in the previous episode when he sacrifices his own grandson in the very next one?
But even the death asides, I think the last episode didn't do the previous ones justice. The whole story is resolved in five minutes with a rather bad explanation... in my opinion that's Journey's end all over again.
What I really hate is what they have done to Jack's character. I know people like to compare him to the Doctor who had sacrificed his planet and people but let's face it: Despite his immortality, Jack is still human.
The Doctor had learned all his life to look at the bigger picture and not let emotions get to you, but Jack didn't.
Look at how upset he was about his brother! And then he sacrifices his own grandson? Looks him into the eye while his brain fries? That doesn't seem in character to me.
The whole episode didn't seem like Torchwood any more with the inactivity of the team...
For me, RTD needed a good reason for Jack leaving Earth and thus killed off Ianto and his grandson which also results in his daughter absolutely hating him.
BTW, saying 'if you want to watch a TV show with no death, theres a lot of them on cbeebies!'
is rather uncalled for... I loved the first two seasons and the first four episodes of CoE and had no problem with the deaths.. so how should I have known what RTD does with the last episode?
Saying things like that sounds almost like you don't accept other people's opinion...
Oh, forgot something: I can understand Jack's decision but what I can't understand is RTD writing such an episode...
We actually have a death you didn't list, the death of Jack as a viable heroic figure. Jack, essentially does the same thing that the Doctor has done off screen. He sacrifices his family for the greater good. I won't go into RTD treading old ground here...let's call it a parallel, a mirror we can hold up to the Doctor's character as well.
What is troublesome is that we SEE Jack make his decision. We live it with him. This gives us some understanding of his pain, yes. But it also adds to the scorched Earth policy developing in the last few episodes of the Whoverse.
As far as the argument going forth that people die in a dangerous job...let's not forget...Tosh and Owen JUST died...in what amounted to the last episode of Torchwood. And we lost Donna in Doctor Who...and there was Rose abandoned and the Doctor is in a very dark place at the moment. Now, we have lost not only Ianto...but, for many people, Jack.
If Jack was going to kill that child...then Ianto should not have died...because we were going to lose Jack and because Ianto was already showing signs of not truly processing his relationship with Jack. So...I could easily see them carrying through on the rejection that the Doctor seems to fear so much. We do see that rejection from the daughter...but we are not as invested in her.
No, I think this miniseries was excellent...as a miniseries...as a political thriller...but it wasn't really justifiable in the world of Torchwood...nor was it particularly creative.
i dopnt see it as a political thriller, its science fiction! and better then any DW or TW so far!
Oh, the first four episodes were but the last one didn't really do them justice... in my opinion anyway.
That aside: John Barrowman was seen on set of DW, wasn't he?
Maybe RTD will give him a moment with the Doctor then... that would be the only thing that could make the ending better for me: giving Jack a bit salvation.
On the death of Steven and what this makes of Jack:
To me after COE Jack is even more of a hero than before. No hero is perfect and it is pretty obvious by the last scene that Jack does hate himself for everything and blames himself, and the last scene shows this beyond no end that Jack is human and has run away, unable to deal with it no more. If he had just stayed and carried on like nothing had effected him then yes he really would be quite the evil guy, but it is quite obvious this is not true, he hates and blames himself and is also grieving. He knew enough to admit he had to go that he couldn't deal with basically as the song said he has become what he can't be. The fact that he blames himself for so much and although he makes the 'right' decisions he hates himself for it and I think that makes Jack more of a hero in my view. He was wise enough to know he had to go and he knew his limits knew he couldn't take it anymore. All in all I think this shows how much heart Jack does have and how much this affects him.
To be fair he never should of been put in that situation in the first place to have to make that decision that was actually the governments fault and Johnson’s, to be fair he most likely would of been able to figure out a better plan if he hadn't spent half the time trying to not get killed and the fact his base was blown up. If anything what happened isn't Jack's fault he had no choice really but the government had plenty of choices throughout COE and continually made the wrong ones which in fact led to this lose lose situation.
Next is what else did you expect him to do? There was no other way, no time. One child or millions. He couldn't dump the responsibility on no one else i doubt n one else would of known how to do it and he didn't have time to teach them, except maybe crazy man who was shot in the leg but i doubt he would of because he is a bit evil and stuff plus it would of made Jack no better in any fashion if he forced the responsibility on someone else.
On the note of having little or no time, this is why they could not talk to or ask Steven or go find a terminally ill child, there was simple no time. Also if you did talk to Steven i doubt he would agree and if he did he wouldn't really know what he was getting into. He is too young and too naive to understand.
And you say the Doctor wouldn't do this if he ended up in this situation but i think he would of done the exact same thing, he has done something 'worse before'. No he wouldn't of talked to Steven as said by previous reasons, no time and plus Steven wouldn't understand much if he did.
The injury to one is in injury to all is a strange one. Because even though Jack said that he had no choice and what he has said has come true. The injury to Steven or in fact Alice/Jack has been and injury to the whole of Earth. Because this death/injury cause Jack to run therefore Earth has lost its protector (the Doctor can't always be there)
Although in fact I think the Doc will convince Jack to return.
In know way would it of made Jack a better person if he had let millions of children die because of his weakness, that is no hero. It was a lose/lose situation that he never should have been put in and had to make in my opinion that means it wasn’t his fault he had no choice and as I said before the government and Johnson had plenty of choice previously to let them do the job but they were to busy trying to save their own asses which lead to there being no time and no ‘right’ way out.
I think that’s all I need to say at the moment I cannot remember anything else XD i wanted to mention but I’ll post it if I do.
Hii btw XD.
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